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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
Thanks Tim, but am afraid the expectation we (as owners) have is for this problem to be fixed being IN or OUT of warranty because it is a Nissan DEFECT and it is not related to normal wear and tear problems which may come up in any car. Since there is no official recall for this defect in Australia, Nissan Australia AND Japan should step up to the mark and ensure that all break-downs associated with the butterfly screws is dealt with promptly and that engine replacement should be the ONLY solution in such cases, as the damage caused by these screws and butterflies is far too great to leave any engine of ours running perfectly like it is now. The repair solution offered in Brett's case (and Deb before him) is NOT acceptable.
This will still be cheaper (to both Nissan Australia & Japan) than recalling ALL xtrails sold between the years of 2001 to 2005.
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17/Apr/2007, 7:48 pm
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
I'm surprised there wasn't damage done to the engine valves (see the two round things at the bottom of the last photo), what with 2 screws, and the butterfly valve bouncing around inside the cylinder at an incredible speed! They might be bent and you wouldn't even know it (I suppose a compression test would reveal that, as they wouldn't seal properly if the valve stems were bent - a broken o-ring on the piston would also give a low reading).
If they were going to force me to accept their band-aid fix, I wouldn't be signing anything without watching them perform the compression test and seeing the results for myself (they could easily print out a report stating values and that they're all within tolerance if you weren't there).
--- Rich. X-013(c)
'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_BFG_TBS_home-made-bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
Click here to see >300MB of photos and videos All For His Glory. |
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17/Apr/2007, 8:08 pm
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
Hi everyone, have been watching this topic for a while but after seeing the pictures of the damage I would like to put in my two bobs worth. As a Mechanic with many years exp. I suspect the top ring on the piston is possibly broken as the edge of the piston has been damaged,The valves would more than likely to be bent and because the piston has been pounding the screw into the head the Bigend Bearing is possibly damaged also. At a minimum this motor needs to be completely disasembled and properly inspected. I hope Nissan gets their act together soon before they ruin the reputation of a great motor vehicle.
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18/Apr/2007, 12:25 am
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
sorry to hear and see the damage done by the screws comeing out looking at the pictures. I hope that the screw or the butterfly did not damage the out side edge of the piston because it can pinch the rings and stop them from sealing or even put a hair line crack in the piston and damage the valve and the seats. I hope you do get a new motor at no cost to you. Keep your chin up.
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18/Apr/2007, 12:50 am
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Canadas FarEast
BANNED USER
Date Registered: 10-2005
Location: Newfoundland Canada
TOTAL POSTS: 395
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
Brett:
Really sorry about you getting bit by the "butterfly" screw bug. This should not be happening to any X-Trail owner.
Nissan has made an exceptionally good vehicle in the X-Trail and it is evident from this forum, and others that I participate in,that there are a lot of really satisfied owners of X-Trail.
The next step for Nissan, after having provided such a good vehicle, is to stand behind it, admit when there has been a manufacturing flaw, and fix it, without placing the owner under such duress during the process.
I can appreciate that a "local" dealer can only go so far in the process without the "authority" from on high. However, the "local" dealer should be mindful of the fact that you are the same customer who bought the X-T in the first place and they should treat you today with the same courtesy and respect that they did when you were buying the vehicle.
Additionally, they "absolutely" should be providing you with a loaner vehicle.
Obviously, "appropriate" resolution of the problem will have to come from "on High" (read as Nissan Australia). The efforts being put forward by those of you involved is the only way to get the matter sorted out.
IMHO, that "appropriate" resolution is a completed engine replacement - and nothing less - I would let the X-T rot on their parking lot before I would agree to any "band-aid" treatment.
The damage that I have seen in your pictures,again in IMHO, cannot be repaired without an engine rebuild/overhaul, which is a time consuming process, during which you'll still be without a vehicle...it appears.
Jalal has developed a good rapport with Nissan Australia and it appears that they are aware of this forum and the many, many members who participate in it.
Nissan Japan (by way of Nissan Australia) should also be aware that many of those same member are also members of other forums (in Canada, Malaysia etc.) and all of us are watching this forum and judging the "quality" of Nissan's after-sales service, which is usually one of the main reasons why a buyer picks a particular product - manufacturer.
While there has not been too much activity on this from here in Canada, I did see an X-T at my dealer on my last service visit (March 07) which had obvious engine problems - and I suspect that the butterfly screws were the culprit.
One of the things that really bothers me about this issue is the future - even if Nissan provides a new engine, what assurances do we have that they have resolved the problem and it won't happen again ??
I wish you well with the outcome - which I speculate will be positive for you.
That being said, I wonder how long after the outcome that you will still be driving a Nissan product.....
Stick with it, keep your chin up and fight the good fight - you'll win in the end, especially with all of your fellow members supporting you, lead by the Head Administrator - Jalal.
Here to support you = Roger
--- Roger
X 228
2006 X-T Bonavista Edition
Production Number 0001
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18/Apr/2007, 2:34 am
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
quote:
BRETT72 wrote:
But, we as little people are merely pawns in todays society of massive corporations and multi-billion dollar businesses. Who are we to demand proper service and respect...
Well we are the Australian X-Trail Forum and we represent the face of Nissan X-Trail owners here in Australia and Internationally.
You as one person are nothing as displayed by the actions of your local Orange Dealership, but as a group we stand united and am sure every one on this forum would support you to the end, just as we would hope would be done for ourselves if the unfortunate happened to us.
There is also the media which could be contacted although it would probably be a good idea to give Nissan Australia some time and the opportunity to rectify it's current stance. I bet the media would love to take hold of a scandal like this and blow it out of proportion.... Sadly sometimes this is the only way to get the attention of these multi million dollar companies, direct where it hurts them hard, in their back pocket...
Last edited by NPC73, 18/Apr/2007, 9:04 am
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18/Apr/2007, 7:59 am
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
quote:
NPC73 wrote:
There is also the media which could be contacted although it would probably be a good idea to give Nissan Australia some time and the opportunity to rectify it's current stance.
How much time do you think they need Noel ?
I think the 5 or so cases this forum has seen and reported and the precedences set by the cases before Brett's is enough for Nissan to both agree to a new engine replacement for Brett AND free rectification of any vehicle presented for preventative work on the screws if not a general recall ?
My understanding is that recalls are generally for dangerous issues which could cause accidents (or environmental issues).
Maybe Nissan Australia don't think this is something which could cause a serious accident ?
I just hope that for Nissan's sake and possibly some unfortunate person/people/family that the engine does not fail from this problem at a time when trying to cross a busy intersection or when overtaking on the highway and cause the type of horrific accident which generates the negative publicity Nissan Australia is trying to avoid.
--- 
Kev X450(c)
2003 Titanium Ti Luxury Series 1 |
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18/Apr/2007, 8:40 am
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
Guys,
I have NOT given-up on Nissan Australia doing the right thing yet and in fact I am expecting a response from them in regards to Brett's case TODAY!
Nissan Australia would also need to seek a ruling on this issue from Japan and I believe they have a resident Nissan Japan representative on board to deal with such issues and to escalate to Japan as required.
ALL of the damaged xtrail engines by this defect have been dispatched to Japan for analysis.
In terms of recalls being issued for safety reasons, this one is no different.
Imagine doing a Simpson Desert crossing with your family (or any remote area) where there is no mobile reception and no one to help you and getting stuck there because of this defect. I can't imagine a more serious and life threatening situation than this!
It is not yet the time to be threatening Nissan with action or what we (as owners) can do, I would like to give them a chance to respond and not only to Brett's case, but a long term solution that would satisfy every xtrail owner. I am saying this not in my capacity as head admin of this forum, but as one of the many concerned xtrail owners!
Depending on Nissan's response, further and a more detailed/appropriate announcement will be made where EVERY Nissan X-Trail owner will be required to get involved!!
Stay tuned!
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18/Apr/2007, 9:03 am
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
And where is your loan car??? This is a "known Nissan DEFECT" and as a minimum a loan car should have been offered FREE of charge whilst Nissan takes the time to make a decision what to do with your case.
Not to mention all your other expenses you’ve had to incur, such as the tow truck, etc, as well as the inconvenience this has all caused, at no fault of your own.
I’m quite appalled by the level of after sales support and care your currently receiving from Nissan, which appears to be none.
What a disgrace, I would have expected better from a well-known brand name.
Last edited by NPC73, 18/Apr/2007, 9:13 am
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18/Apr/2007, 9:05 am
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**
I am not normally a person who gets upset easily but this whole scenario is really quite disturbing. It has been over a week since Brett's car went into the service department, a timeframe which in today's era of technology (Fax, Email, Internet) is far too long to rate even halfway up a 'Customer Service Rating Chart' 
I've had my car for just over two years, clocked up over 61k and is fair to say, I drive my car everyday. From memory, there has been no more that 3 days in this time that I haven't driven my car to some extent, I would be devistated without my car for a week without a loaner. 
This kind of service is abismal from a company of this reputation and will be a black spot that will be hard to get rid of for a long time. 8(
Nissan Australia should really look at the distributorship at Orange and ask them to explain the lousy customer service they provide, maybe they need some refresher training. 
As everyone knows, 'It Is A Known Defect'and due recompense should be forthcoming. When I bought my car, I had the hand free car kit transferred from my old trade in over to the new car, a process that took a couple of days (due to availability of fitter). I was given a demo Xtrail to drive for this time so I wouldn't be inconvenienced any - This is customer service.  This is what will bring me back time and time again.
The customer service Brett is receiving from this dealership is lousy and if this happens to my car and I receive the same treatment, I will never buy another Nissan in my life, just on principal!
--- Jamie - X112(c)
Black 2005, Auto ST-X, (Series 2)
Black Thunda is the name, splashin' around is the game!
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18/Apr/2007, 9:43 am
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